Does Baptism Save?
At 0954 AM 8/26/99 -0700, you wrote
Harold, this in response to the following
statement you asserted, concerning Mark 16:15,16. Regardless of this being
written in a jewish setting, it would be necessary to add (unless he or
she's a gentile, in the following spot) 15 - And He said to them, going
into all the world, preach the gospel to all creation. V.16 The one believing
and being baptized will be saved (unless he is a gentile). This is a necessary
addition regardless of the setting, because of the inclusiveness of
the statement ( all creation, the one believing - This is inclusive of
both the jew and the gentile)
In Christ, D
Dear D
Thanks for your mail and comments.
You will note that Mark 16:16, says also that "he that believeth
not (no baptism mention) shall be damned. Did you wonder why baptism
was not mentioned?
In the day in which we live that are two thing
associated with salvation. Acts 20:21 Testifying both to the
Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our
Lord Jesus Christ.
This was Paul's message to the individual whether
Jew or Gentiles. Repentance was the only condition to being saved.
But it did not saved. Faith is the only means of taking the gift
of eternal life. Jn 3:15 "That whosoever believeth in him should
not perish, but have eternal life."
In the O.T. the conditions were laying hands on a offering and sacrificing it to the Lord for their sins. This covered their sins until Jesus came and died for them.
To begin the N.T. John came preaching to the Nation of Israel. The conditions were, repentance, baptism and they must believe in Christ who would come after him. Acts 19: 1-5 This was not an individual thing, but collective. We read that, Mark 1: 5 And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.
All Judaea were baptized by him, except the Pharisees. Are we to assume all these were saved? Collective the same people rejected Christ when He came. John 1: 11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. Many of them later cried "crucify Him." They met some of the conditions of salvation but did not use the only means of obtaining God's provision in Christ by "believing on Him." This means is everywhere throughout the N.T.
Peter preached in Acts 2:38, to the same people (collective) and had basically the same message. However, when he went to the Gentiles in Acts 10:43, his message was different. "whosoever believeth..." Here his message is individual. Paul preached the same message to all.
Since baptism was a condition the Nation had to meet to use the means of salvation by trusting Christ, and since there were Jewish believers at Corinth, he minimizes baptism by saying, "For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect." 1 Cor. 1:17
Paul did baptize, but "lest the cross becomes of no effect," he made a clear distinction between baptism and salvation.
Trust this helps,
In His Service,
Harold
Dear Harold
In our previous correspondence, i made the following statement, "I don't believe, for the minutes moment the act of Baptism ALONE is the key to salvation (without sincerity, faith , and a pure motive , its only an act) Matthew 157-9
Baptism is "into the name of the Father and
of the Son and of the Holy Spirit," as in Matthew 28:19; Acts 19: 5; 1
Corinthians 1: 13. This phrase, "the name of", in greek writings, meant
in the possession of. The following quotations both document and explain
this intentional meaning. To be baptized into the name of the Father
and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit indicated that one was baptized into
their possession. Thus the one who is baptized belongs to them. Paul indicated
this in rebuking the division in Corinth; " Now this i mean that each of
you saith, I am of paul; and i of Apollos; and i of Christ. Is Christ
divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized into the name
of Paul? (1 Corinthians 1: 12-13.) If Christ was divided, if Paul
was crucified for you, or if you were baptized into the name of Paul,
you would have belonged to Paul. Therefore, you were baptized into
the possession of Christ.
In the greek papyri, "into the name" was "
a common phrase of transference of ownership."( Stephen L. Caiger,
Archeology and the New Testament 1948 pg. 164. Adolph Deissmann,
Light from the ancient East, New York George H. Doran co., 1927 p.121.
Into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, is not a mere formula spoken at the time of baptism, but rather this speaks of the moment an alien sinner becomes the covenant possession of Christ. The design of Baptism. The new testament teaches their is one Baptism( Ephesians 4:5). Yet we read of the baptism of John (mat. 3:1-5) and the baptism in the Holy Spirit (matt. 3:11; Acts 15). However John baptism passed away with the old covenant( Acts 18:24- Acts 19:5). The baptism of the Holy Spirit which was administered by Christ( matt. 3:11; Acts 2: 33), Was a promise not a command that could have been obeyed. The ONE BAPTISM in Ephesians 4:5, is commanded by Christ to be administered to mankind (matt. 28:19). The one baptism we witness, therefore is an immersion in WATER AND IN CHRIST. If their is one baptism, which their is, we must make necessary inference. ( The Samaritans Acts 8:12, Simon Acts 8: 13, The Eunuch Acts 8:35-38, the Philippic Jailer Acts 16: 30-34, the corinthians Acts 18: 8, the Galatians Galatians 3: 26-27. ( John 3: 3-5)
If we render water baptism an exclusive act of the Jew only, Than we separate from the harmonious melody of Gods word (Ephesians 4:5).
We must practice necessary inference. For example Romans 10:13 - For whoever will call upon the name of the Lord will Be saved. We could indicate, no baptism was necessary in this case. So why would it be necessary elsewhere? Well , we could also note, No repentance is mentioned here either, so we could safely conclude repentance is also un- necessary as well, correct? No!! Luke 13:3, Acts 17:30,31 NECESSARY INFERENCE. Therefore if their is one Baptism (Ephesians 4:5), and not only the word itself, but several cases indicate water immersion ( Acts 8:36-39, Romans 6:4, Acts 10:47-48) then we can come to a conclusion, can't we?
Further the Bible teaches, that in order to be saved one must obey the gospel ( 2nd Thessalonians 1:7-9); and baptism is a command in the gospel. Baptism is a condition of salvation , but not a meritorious cause. Christ is the saviour that saves those who strive to obey Him ( Hebrews 5:9; Rev. 22:14; Ephesians 1:7, and John 9:1-7.) On a separate note, what are you currently involved in to reach the lost? Have you found certain evangelistic methods which tend to be more effective then others?
In Christ and In love,
D
At 1057 PM 8/23/99 +0100, you wrote
Dear Harold,
I appreciate your letters.
After discussing with you
last year about baptism, I was challenged to confront what I had been taught
about salvation, baptism, and the word. Quite interesting. After
reading a lot of your letters, I think you are trying desperately to have
the Bible say what you want it to say - particularly as regards baptism.
Many of your comments on various verses seem like you are deliberately
taking the power and meaning out of the verse - not just one, but all of
the verses that apply to the subject of baptism. I can point to more
than ten passages that, in some case, explicitly instruct us to be baptized.
In others, the relationship of baptism to Christ is expressed as
the defining act of a person wanting to be a christian.
There are things that seem
a little odd and out of place in some of the verses, however, the number
of examples, commands, and descriptions of baptism become overwhelmingly
in favor of a believer's need for baptism before he is saved.
I will mention that several parables in Matthew speak of individuals being saved based upon the way they treat others. No mention is made of baptism, church attendance, tithing, etc... in spite of the fact that Jesus was talking with Jews in these particular parables. So, I take this instruction for baptism from the broader viewpoint of obedience to christ.
Your bro in christ,
D
Dear D,
Thank you for your mail.
At 0101 PM 18/08/99 -0700, you wrote
Thank you for the reply to (unless your a
gentile). Your statement " The book of Romans and Colossians were not directed
toward the jew or the gentile but to the christian. (Which would include
both the jew and the gentile)
Not really, because a Jew and a Gentile loses their distinction in Christ. Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. They two are made one in Christ. Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Your statement "The baptism mentioned is not necessarily water baptism. There are three designations in the greek for baptism; Strongs 907 - Baptizo To make overwhelmed, fully wet.(tech.) 908 - baptisma technical or figurative. 909 - baptismos from 907 ablution, washing.
Three terms were available, at Paul's disposal to identify specificaly his meaning. In Romans 62 "907"
Colossians 212 - "908"
The question here and in Rom. 6:3, isn't so much what the word baptized means, but what they are baptized in.
For an example Matt 20:23 And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.
It is the same word "baptized, but it is not water here, but the cup of sufferings the Saviour endured and what they could and would endure
Rom 6:3, definitely says that a Christian has been baptized INTO Christ and INTO His death. That is why V 6. says "Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with Christ..."
Col 2:11 is speaking about a believer being circumcised with Christ
when He was cut off on the cross. Every born again believer is said to
have been crucified with Christ. That is real baptism. The water
baptism is just a symbol of the real thing.
(Greek textus receptus) James 2:22 You see
that faith worked with his works, and by the works his faith was made complete.
Again, D. , look at his illustrations that I mentioned, and there were no works, as people think of works. It was a faith that was working. Not a dead faith. Gal 5:6 puts it this way, "...Faith that worketh by love." That is not faith AND works, but a faith THAT works. You can have a dead faith AND works. This will not save.
I was saved almost 47 years ago but grace alone. I trusted Christ as my Saviour and He saved me. My faith in Christ began working. I started telling people I was saved, I got baptized and started shortly after preaching the Gospel. My life was changed. But, none of these things added to my salvation. My faith was in action and has been ever since. This is what James is speaking about.
In Christ, D
P.S. Trust this helps. I appreciated your correspondence.
Looking forward to hearing from you soon.
Dear D,
Thank you for your mail and comments. I don't recall our conversation last year. I have many and cannot keep records of them all. I have several problems with your concept of baptism being necessary for salvation.
No 1. It is a work or act that we perform. This makes salvation part of works and part of grace. This I believe to be contrary to the clear teaching otherwise. Rom. 4:5, "Now to him that worketh not..." Eph. 2:9, Not of works lest any man should boast." Tit. 3:5, "Not by works of righteousness which we have done..." Rom. 4:16, "Therefore it is by faith, that it might be by grace.
No.2 If it is necessary, then the work of Christ in His sacrifice and the gospel is insufficient to save. That is, if we have to add our work to it.
No. 3. One depends on Christ and baptism both to save them. This is not totally depending on Christ. If I accept Christ by faith and baptism, this says, I'm saved, if not, I'm not saved.
No. 4. Since salvation is a gift, given only on the receiving of it by faith, it would cease to be a gift if baptism was necessary.
There are only three Scriptures that one can use to associate baptism with salvation.
Acts 2:38; Acts 22:16 and Mark 16:16
Since baptism was introduced by John the B. these are all in a Jewish context.
Acts 2: 38, was preached to the nation of Israel. The condition there wasn't so much salvation, but the "receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit." This was the requirement of John the B. of the Jews. No Jew ever received the Spirit without first being baptized in water. This of course, never constituted salvation, they must believe on Jesus. Acts 19:4
Acts 22:16, Paul, a Jew, seemly met the Lord on the Damascus Road. Three days later he had not received the Spirit. God sent Ananias who laid his hands on him and he received the Spirit, all connected with his baptism in water.
Mark 16: 16, was the commission to the disciples to preach the gospel to others. However, this was to be to the Jews first then the Gentiles. Rom. 116 This they did in Mark 1620 and in the first nine chapters of Acts. Peter being the key man as his apostleship was to the circumcision (Jews) Gal 28.
1 Peter 3:21, also written to the Jewish believers scattered abroad. Peter only uses baptism as a "figure, (corresponding type) of salvation. Only a picture.
The gospel of John was last written. There had been much controversy during the previous time about this and many other doctrines. He writes more about salvation by believing and eternal life that all others. Not once does he associated or even mention baptism in connection with salvation.
Paul, the apostle to the Gentiles said, 1 Cor. 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. This suggests by the word "lest" that associating baptism with the cross makes the cross of none effect.
I am a firm believer in water baptism. It is certainly the command of the Saviour . But the only baptism in the Bible is "believer's baptism," and not baptizing unbelievers as part of their salvation.
Trust this helps you to understand by position.
In His Grace,
Harold